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Disabled toilets

Posted by Walt on 4/10/2009, 8:46 pm

Hey guys

My first post here, I am Walt, 35 yrs old.

I was wondering if anyone ever uses disabled toilets when they are in public? I always get looked at as if I am not normal when I go in a disabled toilet. Is there anywhere you can actually get a note, maybe a doctors note that say's it is ok for you to go in a disabled toilet?

Cheers
Walt

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Walt on 4/10/2009, 9:02 pm, in reply to "Disabled toilets"

By the way, as I am new I will tell you a bit about me.

I can't even pee infront of or around my mum, let alone anyone else. It's a proximity thing, as soon as she is far enough away it is ok.

This happens 90% of the time all the time, where evr I am, 10% of the time, I can go, but not on demand or if I am rushed.

cheers

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Paul on 28/10/2009, 1:28 am, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

To be fair, I doubt that many people, sufferers or not, could go in front of their own mother. That aside, I tend not to use disabled toilets as I just end up feeling guilty and it causes me more problems than it solved.

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Andrew on 4/10/2009, 10:34 pm, in reply to "Disabled toilets"

Hi walt

Disabled toilets are toilets adapted for use by the disabled; they are not restricted for use only by the disabled. So anyone can use them.

I met a Sales Manager whose job meant he was on the road all the time; he cheerfully told me that he used disabled toilets all the time.

As for a note: you could ask your GP. Take some evidence that the condition exists - like printouts from our website.

cheers

Andrew

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Walt on 5/10/2009, 12:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Hello

I appreciate the reply. This is the first time I have been to a site like this, or really chatted about it. I decided to come here after the experience I had a while ago. I went to a festival and drank 2 pint of Beer, the only toilets were fields and port cabins. The cues were massive and I ended up having to leave because my bladder felt so tight I could pee for a million pounds.

Like I say 10% of the time it is fine, the rest of the time it is hard, almost painful. The breath holding is a good idea; it gets you used to trying to go before your next breath, which in a way is trying to go within a certain time. So if you get used to doing that, being rushed in a public place won't seem as bad.

I do use the disabled usually, only thing is people tend to look at me or get annoyed that I am in there. I guess if they knew the reason they would understand. No one seems to have that much patience for disabled people I don’t think.

If I go to the GP I am sure he won’t mind giving me the note. In all fairness I don’t think I will ever be over this problem. But having little things to help makes it easier, and talking about it helps too, now I know I am not the only one.

Cheers

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Andrew on 6/10/2009, 8:31 am, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Hi Walt

You say "I don’t think I will ever be over this problem". Lots of people have said this, then found that a workshop has moved them on a lot. Read some of the feedback in the postings below to see that. And go to our website and read the success stories.

From where you are it may well seem impossible; but I assure you it is not.

cheers

Andrew

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Pete L on 6/10/2009, 9:24 am, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Hi Walt

"I don’t think I will ever be over this problem" How many times did I say these exact words before I went on a workshop....too many, that's for sure!!!

This condition makes you feel like you are on your own, that everyone thinks your weird. I speak on behalf of everyone who posts on this site and those who have been on a workshop when I say this - Walt, my friend, you are not on your own! And you do not have to be like this for the rest of your life.

Read the posts on this site, this will give you a very clear understanding of the amount of people who suffer from this monster and those of which who have beaten or on their way to beating it. You will notice the word 'workshop' mentioned on many occasions, a very very marvellous word it is to. Get yourself on a workshop and you will understand what I mean.

Keep us posted, Walt.

Regards

Pete L

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Walt on 7/10/2009, 7:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

I will just tell you my story which brought me here. I went to a festival in Birmingham, Beer festival of all places. I went there when I was about 19 and had no trouble the whole time I was there. That was 16 years ago now. Anyway, I had 2 pints of Beer when I got there, and about an hour after drinking them I had to go, so of course the toilets were wide open style with one or two cubicles. I actually had to leave in the end. What made it hard was I only went with one other person.

Once I got far enough away from the place and felt safe, I went no problem. But I tried so hard to go whilst I was there. I was at the point where I was pushing as hard as I could, it was like a knot in my bladder, a small amount came out which I was hoping would lubricate me to go completely. No such luck.

Anyway, that was my story. It doesn’t bother me that much really, it is an inconvenience mainly, but one that does affect my life.

Thank you

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Walt on 10/10/2009, 5:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Hey guys

I have read the main website. Could someone just possibly explain in a few words what desensing is?

Thanks

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Andrew on 10/10/2009, 8:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Hi Walt

Look at para 18 on this page of our website.

http://www.ukpt.org.uk/first_visit/first_visit_Cognitive_Therapy.htm

The main thing is that you decide your safe starting point; and you decide what each little step is going to be. Another term is graduated exposure. When you have got comfortable in a specific situation, you then move up to a slightly more challenging situation and practice till you feel comfortable there, and so on.. it is a slow but steady way to make progress.

Andrew

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Walt on 11/10/2009, 6:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Thank you for the help there, appreciated.

Do you think this phobia is similar to being fit? E.g. If you don't go to the gym you lose your fitness, if you don't keep up the techniques you learn for Paruresis, you will reverse?

At the point I am at now, it has developed to me having to be 100% sure that other people are far enough away, the sound levels are right, and that my body wants to actually push enough to go. I would say it takes me 25 seconds minimum to go when I am home alone with no one else around. That turns into about 2 minutes or so when I am out. I would say it is 50/50 I can actually go when I go out to pubs etc.

Sometimes I actually get through the first point of trying to go, and I actually start to go, but then I feel my bladder tighten up again to the point where I just cannot go within a reasonable time. Part of me wants to stay in the toilet until it happens, that isn’t always practical so I leave and go back later. Going back isn’t always practical either though, so then the pain of holding it starts, and if I can’t go the next time I visit, then there is a problem, which is what happened to me once and I had to get out of there.

Why can’t they just build toilets the right way, where people have enough personal space to go, without knowing they may get splashed from one urinal or the other, and if using a cubical it is private enough to get people like us through our problem? I swear it is the design, location and environment of the toilets most of the time.

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Andrew on 11/10/2009, 8:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Hi walt

Re like getting fit; yes it is to some extent. But after a workshop you see things so differently that these techniques seem natural, not forced.

As for pushing: this is not recommended and is not natural. If you are not anxious, the body drains of its own accord. The aim of the workshop is to help you to practice graduated exposure in a safe situation, with the result that the anxiety you feel gradually reduces to a manageable level; and to learn to manage your reduced anxiety so that the body can go ahead and do what comes naturally.

cheers

Andrew

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Mark L on 11/10/2009, 8:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Hi Walt,

From personnal experience I would say that if you dont keep up the techniques, you dont reverse as such, you may just find it harder to get back into it. I had a long break from de-sensing, and when I tried again I had remembered everything and managed to go ok, its just that it would have been easier if I had kept up regular de-sesning. I would strongly advie to keep de-sensing reguarly at every opperutinty you get though.

You say that part of you wants to stay in the toilet untill you go... if you find your stress levels rising and nothing is happening, you are better off leaving and returning a bit later on. You dont want to associate stress with going to the toilet.

Out of interest, do you mainly use the urinals or cubicles? When you say theres a 50/50 change of you going in pubs, Im assuming its at the urinals and it depends on wether there is anyone else at the urinals or not? Im the same with pubs - only a few urinals so when its empty its ok, but when theres someone else at the urinals, its impossible!

Mark

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Walt on 11/10/2009, 9:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Thanks for the information again there guys, it is good to talk people about this stuff. Imagine life without the internet, I would go crazy!

Mark, I use the cubicles I am afraid, they are as close as I come to using public toilets. But most of the time I am usually the only one using the cubicles at the pub; almost everyone I see uses the urinals.

I really do think toilets in general could be designed better. Some are ok, and at times I would probably feel quite comfortable using urinals. But I don't see the point in wasting time there, I might as well use a cubical, the chances are I will next time.

Why do men have to have open toilets anyway? Women don't?

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Jonathan on 11/10/2009, 10:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Hi Walt,

I'd say it's a bit like that yes. You need to put in some effort and keep going back to get a return. From quite a young age I started to avoid using public toilets, for no particular reason - so they eventually became an alien environment to me - certainly not the kind of place I'd be seen! Now knowing a bit more about the nature of Paruresis I tend to deliberately engineer situations where I'll need to go whenever I'm out and about so I'm almost reverse-training myself to see it as being the normal routine again because I'm doing it so regularly. And it does seem to be working (very, very gradually). In my case urinals are usually the issue - that's where I'm at, so going back to that environment after so many years of avoidance felt a little exposed and uncomfortable at first even with nobody around - still does seem a bit weird - but I know that if I keep at it and keep challenging myself rather than going straight for the "safety" of a cubicle that feeling WILL disappear with time. Stay positive, practice as much as possible.

If I can't go, I'll think of the pain and then focus on how nice it would be if that pain would just flow away and I could enjoy the rest of the day without having to worry about it. 9 times out of 10 it's as though the need for relief and normality suddenly overcomes any anxiety or embarrassment I might be feeling. Block everything else out, it's totally irrelevant. Switch off. Usually helps, if it doesn't at least I tried and there will always be more opportunities.

Design issues probably come down to budgets I guess. I've noticed a trend towards individual unisex WCs (direct access, no communal areas) in some parts - always a bit of a disappointment when desensing because they don't offer me much challenge personally but perhaps good news for many of us.

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Mark on 10/2/2010, 5:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

I would just like to say, i have sometimes used disabled toilets but dont agree with the term. I am a trained access auditer and the correct term is accessible WC meaning accessible to all. But i must agree, if you are caught using one and dont look disabled you do get strange looks. Maybe it would help if I considered myself to be mentally disabled as I do feel justified in using them. I sometimes prefer it if an accessible WC is the only one available as you at least have the knowledge that nobody else will come in while you are in there. WHY DO I FEEL THE NEED TO HAVE TO JUSTIFY MYSELF (he says in frustration)

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Rob on 23/11/2010, 9:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

I use them if they are available and reasonably discreet - especially in busy restaurants that often only have one cubicle - always occupied or someone waiting!
Rob

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Walt on 12/10/2009, 7:50 pm, in reply to "Disabled toilets"

I was reading on the internet that a survey shows that it is mostly men that get Paruresis. If women had toilets similar to guys, I guarantee the women would probably get it worse than the guys. The women never have open style toilets, and never have to do it stood up either. I was under the impression as a youngster that standing up was easier, but all in all I would say it is harder.

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by jimcreg on 12/10/2009, 8:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Hi Walt.
You say it seems harder to "go" standing up. That's where I think it is different for males from females as I think under normal,"safe" conditions (ie nobody around!)it is easier for men to go standing up. When I stand up after a sitting session I always feel a need to "go" again! That's why AP is so frustrating for me. I would just love to be able to release at a urinal, no matter who is there. Jim.

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Walt on 12/10/2009, 11:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Hey Jim

Yes, I am with you there, I know exactly what you mean.

I wish there was a drug that helps relax that part of the body enough to help ‘let go’ as it were. I have tried getting drunk, I mean very drunk, and trying to pee, but it's still the same usually.

I did go to a club once; I went to the toilet twice and couldn’t go. Then whilst I was in the toilet my friend called to me, we had a quick conversation about some general topic, within seconds I felt totally comfortable and went without any worry at all. It was almost as if I had a distraction, enough to make me feel comfortable and I just let it out and went.

It is strange, in the toilet I feel completely alone, but when I feel some sort of contact with someone else it sometimes helps. If I think about another person whilst I am in the toilet on my own, that makes it worse, but talking to someone outside, maybe someone stood by the sinks talking to me, that is fine.

It is defiantly in the mind, the thing with it is having that environment and distraction every time when you need it, and the problem is that situation is hard to come by. My body and mind don’t always sync, that is my problem, I can clear my thoughts completely till the cows come home, but if I am not going to go, then I am not going to go, plain and simple.

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Walt on 13/10/2009, 6:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

I just tried something out; I was in my own toilet alone with the door open. I the imagined someone else in the toilet with me, I immediately felt the bladder close up and retract, and ‘knot up’ like it does when I am out. Now this is in my own house, no one else around, just imagining someone else there made it hard. I was stood there for 5 minutes in my own house just trying to go. I was testing myself for a minute, just proves it is in the mind. I just wish I knew the thought process of someone who never ever has problems where ever they are.

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Andrew on 14/10/2009, 3:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

Hi Walt

You wrote "I just wish I knew the thought process of someone who never ever has problems where ever they are."

I asked a mate two questins:

1. Are tehre eveany situations wehre you find it difficult to pee. He thought about it than said "Well I walk into the toilet and in a few milliseconds a decision is made, I dont know where or how, and I go either to the urinal or to the cubicle". I asked if using a cubicle was a problem and he replied "Not at all, why should it be?"

2. "How much of an event is having a pee for you?" He thought long and hard about this and then said is was as uneventful and unmemorable as blowing his nose. He could not remember when he last blew his nose, and it would not cross his mind to think about when and where he would next blow his nose: peeing was just like that.

Talking with other guys the thought process is no more than this: a metaphorical couple of seconds to engage with starting the flow and then back to whatever they were thinking about before they went in: e.g. work, pub talk etc.

cheers

Andrew

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Walt on 14/10/2009, 4:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

That sounds like a great way to be. There are a few things in my life that I wish I could change, and to change myself into a person like that would be great. As I have grown up, I have always tried to find the best in everyone, and then take a piece of that and add it to myself. The trouble is, you can’t take a physical aspect from someone and add it to yourself. You can take their outlook and psychology on things and use that within your own outlook on life. Or you can build up your muscles or change your hair. But sometimes you just are you who you, unfortunately for some.

I have come to a decision. Peeing is a combination of thought and what you are doing when you try to ‘go’. If I think about the right things and do the right things whilst trying, it will work. For example, if I breathe normally and think about people being there with me, then there is no chance of ‘going’. However, if I think I am alone and relaxed, and hold my breath a bit, it works.
It will still take me at least 5 minutes to ‘go’ where ever I am, that is the problem. Weather I need to go at home or in public, if I am stood up...I will be there for ages.

I almost feel like maybe I am a bit lazy, I mean peeing is a fact of life, it shouldn’t really be treated like a chore, just something that has to happen sometime.

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Simon on 15/10/2009, 9:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

So I'd guess your problem is not with peeing but with the '5 minutes' - the hesitancy, and how people will react to that. A lot of people experience hesitancy (myself included). If you can keep relaxed during that period you are gonna find it easier to go, and in this relaxation the next time you decide to walk into a toilet you are not going to be so apprehensive- making it easier to relax- causing for less hesitation and overall improvement in the long term. This might sound alien to you but its just desensing yourself to the embarassment you've over the years been building into your psyche. Small steps = giant leaps you just have to believe it and want it.

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Martyn on 16/8/2010, 11:51 am, in reply to "Disabled toilets"

I use disabled toilets and have no problems with anyone looking at me going in them. I also have a Radar Disabled Toilet Key which I bought from ebay and it works ok.
I find going in a disabled toilet makes me feel safe from everyone and I can go normally.

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Dot on 8/10/2010, 11:39 am, in reply to "Re: Disabled toilets"

I also purchased a radar key from their website (about £4.50) You pay more if you are abled as then you pay tax on it. One of my problems is that if there is only a couple of toilets i panic as i think people are waiting for me and i usually exit without going. I'm better if there are a long row of toilets and there is noise in the vicinity. therefore a small posh toilet is worse than a large noisy public one.
the radar key enables me to have more privacy as the door is usually flush with the floor and walls. There's never a queue and as public toilets shut around 5 or 6 pm i can use one anytime. Using the disabled toilet doesn't bother me as after going on the radar website i know its not only disabled people who can have a key.

Re: Disabled toilets

Posted by Colin on 1/11/2010, 10:25 am, in reply to "Disabled toilets"

Hi Walt
If I understand you correctly, you would like a note from someone saying it is OK for you to use Disabled toilets. Have you ever been asked for such a note?

Who would challenge you? There are many forms of disability not visible to the eye, and in any case these toilets are mostly of the type enabled for easy use by the disabled, but NOT exclusively for their use.
So I really would not worry about it. I use them, and I know others who do also.

In fact it always makes me laugh in Marks & Spencer when there is a big queue outside the "ladies" and the Disabled toilet is unoccupied.

Go for it! They are roomier, more private, have flush fitting doors and are so much easier for AP's in difficult situations.
Colin

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