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Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Nick on 14/8/2017, 7:16 pm

Hello everyone. This is to tell everyone how useful for me has been to have a pee buddy during my holiday in Ireland. I was able to succeed almost always in any type of urinals, even troff urinals, which I considered impossible for me. So my advice is: ask one of your closest male friends to be your pee buddy. Even if is not paruretic (my pee buddy was not). I found this experience very useful. Don't be shy. Choose carefully your pee buddy among your closest and most discreet male friends. If he really cares for you, he will probably be empathic with you and will accept to be your pee buddy. This experience can also makes your friendship deeper. I am very happy to have revealed my problem to my best friend. I felt immediately more relaxed and all worked very well. So don't be doubtful. Look for a pee buddy among your male friends!
Nick from Italy

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Jamie on 15/8/2017, 3:45 pm, in reply to "Nick and his pee buddy"

Well done Nick & keep up the good work!

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Nick on 17/8/2017, 7:11 am, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Thanks Jamie
The problem is no many public men toilets are present in my town! But yes I'll keep working.

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Dylan on 17/8/2017, 7:33 am, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Hello Nick good work on your progress I have a friend in mind as a pee buddy but I'm unsure how to do exposure therapy with a pee buddy. I guess I would ask him to stand in the cubicle next to me than later leave the door open then try the urinal Al do you use a busy toilet or more of a p
Quiet park toilet

thanks Dylan

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Nick on 17/8/2017, 8:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Dear Dylan
first of all, choose well your pee buddy. I chose a male friend I have a lot confidence with. I can say I love him as a friend, and I think he cares quite a lot for me. He is not paruretic but I knew he is very empathic with me. I think a non-paruretic friend may be even better than a paruretic one.
I had planned a holiday with my family and his, so I took the opportunity to tell him that maybe he could help me if we had to pee together in the open air, or in the public toilet. He promptly accepted. Actually, I had already desensitized me with "street urinals" and also in urinals with dividers. My difficulty was in urinals without dividers and in troff urinals (that are not used in Italy). My friend and I have practised every day at least once in the "open" urinals we found in restaurants, pubs, visitor centers and so on all throughout Ireland. I did not know, but troff urinals are quite common in Ireland, even troffs where you urinate against a "wall" and then your urine drains downwards in a groove just in front of your tip toes. These were very difficult in my mind. I must say that my friend's presence was very reassuring and I could urinate almost in every situation and in any type of urinals. Sometimes I have also practised alone, usually successfully.
I think it is a good idea to propose to your friend to enter the cubicle with you first, or also in your house, then to keep open the door, and then to try the urinals (possibly with dividers first). When you try the urinals, initially let a urinal free between you (usually another man will not use it due to "urinal etiquette" unless the toilet is very crowded), and then put yourself in to two close urinals. In troff urinals, I advise you to put yourself in the corner and your friend as close to you as you are confortable. Try talking with him while trying urinating, it is relaxing, and you will feel more at ease.
Good work, and I hope you fill find a pee buddy as good as mine.
If I can be of help to you again, write me again!
With friendship
Nick (from Italy)

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Karl on 18/8/2017, 9:48 am, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Great work Nick! You should keep all this documented in a diary so you can remember the positive past and anticipate a positive future as suggested in the workshop.
I am pleased you have such an understanding buddy to not only talk too but to go out with to practice.
Maybe you could show him some of the workshop paperwork so he knows what to say to you when you have a misfire so that you don't get down or dissuaded from getting better.
Well done to you!
Karl

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Nick on 18/8/2017, 2:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Thanks Karl
(by the way, are you German, like your name?)
I'm quite satisfied of my successes. In about a year I have made a lot of progress, without any workshop, but only with the advice of this group and especially Andrew. And yes, I'm lucky to have a friend like my pee buddy. As I told you I love him as a friend, and I think he cares quite a lot for me. He was close to me in very difficult moments of my life. In this occasion, he immediately accepted my proposal to go and pee together. He was always reassuring me. The only misfire I had during my holiday was probably due to the lack of urgency, I had really very little urine to pee and I did not manage. He immediately reassured me that it was just for this, and that the subsequent time I would succeed (which actually happened). I recommend to ask a close non-paruretic friend to be your pee buddy. It is a great experience.
Unfortunately, we cannot practise easily iin my town in Italy. But I think we will find a way. And anyway, I think I have obtained with his help some definite results, so I can also start again practising alone.
Please tell me more about the material you mentioned in your message, which I could give to my pee friend; I know nothing about it.
Thanks again
Nick

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Karl on 21/8/2017, 2:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

No Nick, i'm British.
Ok, one thing is that latency is situational so can depend if you are tired, stressed, and what mood you are in. Latency is the time between standing at the urinal and actually starting to pee.
For someone without paruresis it normally takes 7-14 seconds to start peeing but any latency is normal so can be affected by any of the above things and also lack of urgency as you've already discovered.
If misfires begin to affect you then your mate can tell you to say this to yourself before you try to pee "What if i can pee" instead of "What if i have a misfire again". CAN is a more positive word than MISFIRE so your brain will recognise that and react accordingly in time.
How about you and your mate saying out loud (but quietly) to each other "What if i can go". If your mate can go after saying it then it will encourage you to do so too.
Ask your mate to stand near you at a urinal when you don't need to pee. This is called faking. You stand at the urinal for about the same time as you would if you were peeing but you intentionally don't pee. This helps you get used to the urinal environment and used to standing there doing nothing. When you then have a misfire in the future it will bother you less because it will just feel like you are faking again.
If you are unable to pee during a visit to a urinal you can walk out, stay in the area (or go on to the next public toilets), take a deep breath for 4 seconds and then breath out. Repeat the process until you feel relaxed, a greater level of urgency, and ready to try again and then go to the urinal in your own time. Don't rush these things until you are as comfortable as possible.
A tight abdomen (stomach) can make you think you are ready to go when your level of urgency isn't yet high enough.
Lastly, i suggest you and your buddy do what's called anchoring. This is where you do something as a symbol of self-praise for having a success.
How about you and your mate giving a high five to each other before you go into the toilets and on the way out.
This represents that you WILL have a success and that you DID have a success.
I hope you can understand my English and am pleased to read you are making an excellent start.

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Nick on 22/8/2017, 8:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Thanks Karl
very useful suggestions. Yes I understand clearly your English. What about a hug after a success? is it too much?
Nick

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Karl on 23/8/2017, 11:43 am, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

I'm glad my suggestions were useful to you and that you understood my English clearly.
Yes, i would say a hug is too much. It wouldn't look right hugging a man before or after you have just entered/exited a toilet.
A high five is less formal.

talking and peeing

Posted by Nick on 22/8/2017, 9:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Dear Karl
I forgot to ask you: I know that "urinal etiquette" should forbid talking. But I found that talking with my pee buddy was very relaxing while trying to urinate and then while urinating together. Once in Ireland I talked also with a French man with whom I entered a public toilet after we had looked for them together for quite a long time, and we both had quite high urgency. I told him something like: "You are French, aren't you? I could not wait anymore! I had to urinate!" He answered that he also was in trouble with his urgency. This was very relaxing for me. Another time (some years ago, I was in Paris, at a congress) it was the man beside me (he was at the same congress) who started the conversation. He said "What a stink" (there was actually quite a stink!!) and I answered something I don't remember. Also then it was relaxing for me. Do you think I did something wrong? or could I use also this technique, maybe speaking quite softly? Is it so wrong to tell (for example) "hello" to the fellows urinating when you approach the urinals? or to say "goodbye" to the others when you are finished? or maybe something in joke such as "Hope you have a good piss"? Tell me please your opinion.
Nick

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Karl on 23/8/2017, 12:12 pm, in reply to "talking and peeing"

Hi Nick. Actually a urinal etiquette we are taught at the workshop is to break what feels like unnatural silence as it switches the brain to the rational side and helps reduce the control paruresis has on oneself.
Here are examples the workshop gave us... "Better out than in", "Bloody cold isn't it", and "Good penalty that wasn't it".
I break unnatural silence when i go into changing rooms and use public showers which has desensed me around other men especially as a lot of the other regulars do the same. By doing this i have made friends and acquaintances to talk to in the process which has been a bonus.
Examples of conversations are... "Cold in that pool today wasn't it", and "Busy in there today wasn't it?". Men just make conversation with you such as "Yes it is but not as cold as it was yesterday" or "It was busy in there, i wonder why?" and sometimes other men join in the conversation too. Nobody gets the wrong idea about you and it helps you get used to the environment.
This is similar to what you have been doing already but i wouldn't say "hello" or "goodbye" to men when approaching or leaving urinals or make a joke however, what you have said already in Paris is fine.

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Nick on 23/8/2017, 2:05 pm, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

Thanks Karl. So i have done nothing wrong. Ok. Could you explain me better the expression you advice me to use?
Better out than in (=? better to have urinated than to retain urine??)
Bloody cold isn't it (= it is very cold indeed, but you mean in the toilet or you refer to the weather??)
Good penalty that wasn't it (= I really can't understand this expression!!)

What about "How are you guys?" when approaching
and
"have a good day" when leaving??

When all urinals are busy and you put yourself between other two men: "Sorry, I cannot delay!" What about that?

Thanks a lot. You are very understanding!
Nick

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Karl on 23/8/2017, 2:22 pm, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

No you have done very well. High five from me to you!
The expressions...
Better out than in is similar to what you have said yes.
Bloody cold refers to the weather not the toilet.
Good penalty that refers to a goal scored in football. This would be said if two men met in a pub toilet and were watching football on tv but had to nip to the toilet.
It could be any sport that has a penalty in it though such as rugby.

No, i wouldn't say "How are you guys?" when approaching or "Have a good day" when leaving. I do say "Have a good day" in the changing rooms when i have had a small conversation but that is different.

When between two men you could say "Oooh, i'm busting to go" which means you cannot wait to pee. When you start urinating you could say "ahhh,that's better!".

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Nick on 24/8/2017, 7:26 pm, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

Thanks Karl
So I think the best thing is to be spontaneous as I was with that French man.
Nick

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Karl on 25/8/2017, 11:57 am, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

How about trying having a conversation at the urinal with your pee buddy before you try talking to anybody else.
Here is an idea for you...

Don't go into the gents together, one of you go in and then the other goes in about five seconds later. You stand next to each other at a urinal and say "Hiya mate, how are you?", "I'm fine thank, how are you?", "I'm well thank you... nice day isn't it?", "It is a nice day".
When one of you has finished urinating and has washed their hands the other can just say "Bye mate, see you soon" and the other one of you can say "Yes, bye".
Do this at every toilet you desense in and take turns at who goes in first. Men won't know you hadn't been with each other outside so will think you have just met up. To make this easier, don't stand together to close to the toilet building, stand a short distance away where men are less likely to of seen you.
You can change the conversation and end it with "Fancy going for a drink mate" or "Do you want to go up town with me" instead of "Bye" so that you won't feel any need to worry when you walk out of the gents together.

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Nick on 26/8/2017, 6:13 am, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

Hei Karl
Thanks a lot. Very good ideas! I think you really care for me! Very kind of you!
Nick

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Karl on 26/8/2017, 11:34 am, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"
Edited by board administrator 27/8/2017, 2:08 pm

i care about everyone on here Nick and like to help out the best i can.
I have done so well in the last 19 months that i want to encourage everyone else on here too.
Making the time and regular desensing is very important.
Make a diary and write down every trip to the public toilets by putting down success or misfire. Hopefully when you look back on it you will discover you had more successes than misfires and it is those successes you must remember and focus on and not the misfires by telling yourself that you have succeeded and WILL succeed again.

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Karl on 26/8/2017, 3:34 pm, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

Desensing not deceasing sorry (spelling error). Can you correct that please Andrew?

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Andrew on 27/8/2017, 2:09 pm, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

Done. :-)
Andrew

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Karl on 29/8/2017, 11:33 pm, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

Thank you Andrew.
Frank was telling me that when he gets emails and clicks on the links to read the new comments that the link doesn't work.
It does it when i do the same so too so i just open up a new tab and surf for the website so i have told Frank to do the same for the time being.
Can you fix the link so we can go directly to the comments via email please.
Thanks again.

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Karl on 26/8/2017, 11:28 am, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

I would also suggest you and your pee buddy practice standing with an vacant urinal in between you so that will increase the chance of someone else using it and you will get used to someone you don't know urinating next to you in the process.
Have the same "Hiya mate" conversation to your friend that i suggested to you above when you do this as it won't matter if someone comes in and stands between you because the conversation has already started so they won't think you are paying any attention to them. That person will in fact be paying attention to themselves and their own urinal.
When you have finished urinating, don't rush to leave the gents. Take your time to wash and dry your hands and look in the mirror to check your hair or tidy the collar on your shirt.
You can also visit the gents to wash your hands, blow your nose with toilet paper, or comb your hair instead of urinating as this will help you get used to the environment. The more you use the environment, the more you get used to it and you may even notice when you see men from behind that they are paying attention to themselves in there and not each other when they are at their urinal.
If you are out with mates (including your pee buddy) and you go to the gents by yourself, arrange with him beforehand to cover for you if you are a long time in the toilet so your friends don't question why you took your time.

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Nick on 26/8/2017, 2:00 pm, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

Thanks Karl. Very kind of you

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Andrew on 27/8/2017, 2:14 pm, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

Hi Nick
Just a quick suggestion about talking with strangers. Anything you say should be impersonal e.g. the weather. You will give the wrong impression if you say anything personal, such as hello, or how are you?
Andrew

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Nick on 28/8/2017, 1:38 pm, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

Do you mean I could give the impression of being gay, or anyway trying to pick someone up?
OK, I'll be very careful!

(... but anyway what's wrong if someone is gay??! Well, some dinosaur straight men could get very angry, couldn't they?)

Thanks for the suggestion. I think you are right. Let me know please some other impersonal subjects beside weather. Talking is very relaxing for me, so it helps me a lot to overcome my inhibition.
Nick

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Karl on 29/8/2017, 11:37 pm, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

That is what Andrew (and also me in a previous message) are saying.
No, there is nothing wrong with being gay but you still do not want to give someone the wrong idea and you also may say it to an anti-gay person who may get angry with you. If that were to happen then your anxiety would increase each time you use the toilet again in the future and that would make overcoming your paruresis more difficult.

Re: talking and peeing

Posted by Nick on 30/8/2017, 1:57 pm, in reply to "Re: talking and peeing"

Karl, you are perfectly right. I wouldn't like to be addressed badly as a gay man by an anti-gay man. Not because I feel that being gay is bad in itself, but because I wouldn't like to be addressed badly.
However, if I were strong enough, I would like to meet an anti-gay man and to answer him badly if he had addressed me badly. I don't like anti-gay men. It's a type of racism. Very bad!
I can add that when I was young (and maybe more goodlooking than now!!)I was twice approached by gay men; I just said "no", and that's enough; no need to be rude about it.

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Dylan on 20/8/2017, 8:32 am, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Do you mean to stand behind me in a cubicle or in a separate cubicle? Yeah I think I can try the house one I've had my sister stand by the door many occasions and I guess I'm use to peeing near my mum my sister and my girlfriend. Also being from Australia we have lots of troffs lots or urinals not many with dividers yet.

Thanks for the response
Kind regards
Dylan

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Dylan on 21/8/2017, 8:32 am, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Also to Nick it seems that alot of your success has been of the help of having a pee buddy is that right?

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Karl on 21/8/2017, 10:54 am, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

You need to stand near a man because you wouldn't stand near a woman at a public convenience.

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Nick on 21/8/2017, 2:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Dear Dylan
I think you should gradually become used to the presence of your MALE pee buddy while you are urinating. So you may need e.g. 1-2 meters between you at the beginning, and subsequently you can come closer and closer. If the cubicle is large enough, I think you should enter THE SAME cubicle. If the cubicle is too small and/or you feel you need much distance, I could advice you to keep the door open and your pee buddy immediately out of the cubicle. Try to talk with him while trying to pee. As for me, it was very relaxing to talk with him. In my case, after a few times, I was able to pee with my pee buddy at a elbow-to-elbow distance, as in contiguous urinals without dividers or in troff urinals, where you are able to choose the distance (but i think they are more difficult because they allow less privacy. When you try urinals, try the last of the line, and initially put you a little oblique towards a corner, in order to feel more comfortable. The same in a troff. In the troffs, you may feel more comfortable if you put in the corner where the drain is, so you are sure that other men can't see your urine, which can be embarrassing. If you failed, don't give up. Next time you'll do better. Your pee buddy should be reassuring you. Mine was.
Please contact me again if you need more help. Nick

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Dylan on 24/9/2017, 7:22 am, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Hello Nick I seen an old acquaintance from high school which I told about paruresis I was close to using him as a pee buddy but I found out he's gay as a straight man with a girlfriend I see this as an issue especially the way he acts I'm not to interested in being friends with this guy but I wanted to use him as a pee buddy my current thought is to not do that and wait to find the right pee buddy.

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Nick on 24/9/2017, 4:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Hello Dylan. I may have not understood well what you wrote. In my opinion, you could have a gay guy as a pee buddy. What's wrong about it? Do you think you could be misunderstood by your girlfriend? Is your gay friend in love with you? I think you could clarify with him and with your girlfriend that he is only your pee buddy. However, you have to be comfortable with your pee buddy. So, I think, the choice is yours!
Nick

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Dylan on 25/9/2017, 6:23 am, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

Hello Nick I ran into this guy and I felt bad for him so I hung out with him a bit and thought about using him as a pee buddy but he acted strange around me leaning close towards me etc. So I asked if he were gay and he said he was so I want my paruresis better but I don't think it's a good idea.

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Karl on 25/9/2017, 9:58 am, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

I wouldn't advise using a gay man as a pee buddy as it would increase anxiety.
I have some gay friends who me and a girlfriend go out for drinks with just occasionally and they never go to the gents at the same time as me.
Your best bet is to pee with someone you have been friends with a long time or someone you haven't been friends with for quite as long but whom you feel is mature enough to take things seriously and be sympathetic.

Re: Nick and his pee buddy

Posted by Nick on 25/9/2017, 2:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Nick and his pee buddy"

In my opinion, what is really important is that your pee buddy and you are close enough to trust deeply each other. I can say I love my pee buddy, as a friend. I think he loves me as a friend. We practised together a lot during holiday. He is not at all paruretic, but very understanding my psychology. I know he is not gay, but I don't think it really matters.
If you do not feel comfortable with someone, I agree he is not an ideal pee buddy. Maybe you have a close male friend who could easily accept to be your pee buddy just because he loves you as a friend. Just consider your close male friends, and maybe you will find that one of them could be your ideal pee buddy. I did like this, and my choice was good!
Nick

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