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Last night I came across this website. It filled me with relief that I am not the only one with this problem. I thought I would post a thread here and if anyone has any tips or advice I would be so grateful!
I am a 25 year old woman who has had this problem for the best part of 10 years. It has got to the point where I feel it really affects my life and I am so fed up.
Essentially for me:
I find it impossible to pee on planes and trains due to two reasons. The movement and the anxiety of worrying how long I have been in the loo! I have only flown twice, both only 1 hour each due to Paruesis and on both occasions I was still desperate to pee and couldn't and the longer I spent in the loo the more stressed I got. Trains are the same. I usually plan my journeys so that I can get off at a station with a loo and then get the next train to my destination. Even last night I was due to go to a show in London which is a 90 minute train ride and I knew it would mean getting the last train home and I couldn't face the fear of being stranded if I got off or not being able to pee! I have a work awards evening next week which involves me flying 1 hour 25 mins and already I am in a state about it! I love flying but the stress of worrying I will need to pee and not be able to takes away the fun! It is this impending trip which prompted me to look online for help. I have not flown for 6 years because of this despite wanting to travel so much! I had a holiday in Wales last month due to being able to drive and stop regularly as I couldn't face the worry of flying but returned to work to an invite to this mini break which involves a flight, or 4.5 hours by train which would obviously be even worse!
Movement used to be the only problem until a few months ago. I have no problem going to the loo in public toilets, except where there is a queue! If I know women are waiting to use the toilet and I need to be quick, no matter how desperate I am I just cant go! This recently happened at a show in London, only 3 toilets for a long queue of women during the interval. Not good. If there are lots of toilets and I don't feel people are timing me I am fine!
I also find I need to pee more than most people. I can be desperate to go after even 15 minutes sometimes! Usually I average about 1 hour between needing the loo. Because I know I pee so much I try to drink as little as possible. Sometimes I will drink only three glasses of squash all day. I will only drink more when I know I can pee to my hearts content without embarrassment!
I want to pee less and be able to travel! The excitement of the trip next week has already been overcome with the fear of being desperate to pee snd not being able to. I have read on other threads about people not peeing for 20 hours, wow! If I manage 2 hours for this flight without being in pain it will be a miracle.
I know it is purely in my head. I have a friend who is a NLP Master Practitioner and he seems to think he can sort me out. I am not so sure.
Clare x
Re: Forum Newbie
Posted by Andrew on 10/11/2010, 11:44 am, in reply to "Forum Newbie"
Hi Clare
Good to hear from you; and pleased that you now know you are not the only one to be affected.
The good news is that you “have no problem going to the loo in public toilets,”. That is something to build on.
You say you have a problem with queues, and with trains and planes. It is not clear whether the difficulty with trains and planes is due to time pressure, or only to movement. Can you clarify?
In the meantime let’s look at queues at public toilets, and the need to pee often.
You say “If I know women are waiting to use the toilet and I need to be quick,” and that “I know it is purely in my head”. Exactly. You see: you do NOT need to be quick. None of the other women who went in to a cubicle ahead of you tried to be quick; they all took as short or as long a time as it took. Some had a short pee, some a number 2, some may have been constipated; for some it was the time of the month, and for others all four together, not to mention the stuck zip – so what I am saying is that there is NO specified time period involved. All very well, I hear you say, but that is how I am thinking. So lets look at an analogy in your life. When you go to a car park which is nearly full, and manage to find a slot, do you then rush round the supermarket, or cut your shopping short, or leave the theatre without staying for a drink, all to free up that car park slot for someone else to use? No you do not. So tell your anxious you that your cubicle is like a car park slot – it is yours for as long as you need it.
You are possibly thinking that the women in the queue will bang on the door, or make a comment when you exit the cubicle. So what; the first is impolite, the second lasts an instant then you are gone. Two things to do here. Firstly have a script in your head to use in the unlikely event that a comment will be passed e.g. “what took you so long?” Answer in a neutral but assertive tone “Sorry but it takes as long as it takes”. Practice this with a partner. Armed with a script, you will be less anxious.
Secondly you need to desensitize yourself to the queue situation. You do this by joining a queue when you do NOT need a pee. You do everything as normal except, obviously, peeing. While in the cubicle, because you are under no pressure to pee, you can explore your feelings about the time pressure, talk to yourself about the above, and start to manage your anxiety. Use your watch to time 60 seconds; notice how long a time 60 secs is! Then leave. It will be anxiety provoking the first time. However after an interval, you repeat the exercise; because you survived the first time, the second time will be less anxiety provoking, and you can continue managing your anxiety. You repeat this exercise until unavoidably it gets tedious or boring. Great: a barrier has been breached. You can now practice that situation with a need to pee. It is a very good idea to have a fall back when practicing i.e. a safe toilet to fall back on should you not pee. Remember that disabled loos are not only for the disabled; they are public toilets adapted for the disabled; if there is no disabled person using one, you can use it too. Yes really.
You say “I need to pee more than most people”. This can be due to several things.
One is drinking diuretics: tea, coffee, beer. Use warm water or juices.
The second is anxiety; i.e. It becomes a vicious circle. You worry about it, that makes you feel you need to pee (when you don’t) so you worry even more and so on. Note that caffeine amplifies anxiety, i.e. tea, coffee and coke.
The third is not reading your body’s signals properly. On the workshops we get participants to drink, and then to rate their need to pee on a scale of 0 to 10, where 0 is empty, and 10 is bursting with legs crossed (we tell them to never let themselves get to that stage). The aim is to wait until there is a strong but still comfortable urge say level 7 or 8. They all find that in the past they were obsessing about needing to go to the loo while only on a level 2 or 3. In other words they were reacting to a minor tickle as it were; during the workshop they realise they could safely ignore that and wait an hour or so till it built up to a level 7. Most people say it is much easier to start a flow when on a 7, than when on a 2 or 3. You can practice this at home.
You also say “I try to drink as little as possible. Sometimes I will drink only three glasses of squash all day”. This is counter-productive. The body is constantly generating urine; the excess fluid we drink dilutes it. If you do not drink, the urine in the bladder is concentrated (a deep yellow/orange) and can be an irritant; this can make for an uncomfortable feeling of a need to go, with no accompanying fluid pressure to help in voiding. Much better to drink non-diuretics, and to get a comfortable urge.
If you email me at the support email address at top of page, I can send you a short document about plane toilets which may help - thinks should puts this on the website J
So read and digest, and get back with your comments. Get back also about what bothers you about planes, given there is no discernable movement; is it time pressure again?
Read also our website which is separate to the forum: it has a lot of advice there; again the link is at the top of the page
Cheers
Andrew
Re: Forum Newbie
Posted by Clare on 11/11/2010, 7:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Forum Newbie"
Thank you so much for such a wonderfly lengthy reply Andrew!
Yesterday I started a 'pee diary' so as to note how often I pee. I found by doing this I was making myself wait longer and ended upgoing far less than I thought I would!
You speak about the scale of 1-10 - really opened my mind. I think I get anxious as soon as I need a pee and so go to the loo. Today I found myself waiting 90 minutes after that first urge quite comfortably.
Really like your car park analogy - makes perfect sense!
I have always assumed the plane/train issue is due to the moment. But having read a lot of this forum and website I don't think it is that at all... it is the anxiety of having people there knowing how long I have been in the loo! This is such a realisation for me. Aside from transport I cannot think of any other situation where the same people are sat there when you come out as went in. I always feel I should be in and out and there lies the problem!
I know I should drink more and I do think I will do with a little more help! I don't drink any hot drinks (tea, coffee etc) nor Coke... mostly fruit juices or fruit fizzy drinks.
I have booked the aisle seat on the back row nearest the toilet for my flight next week so I can just nip in the toilet with hardly anyone noticing. I wonder if this will help me be able to pee. I feel so excited that I may astually be making progress and might be able to travel further distances in the future!! One step at a time though first!!
Clare x
Re: Forum Newbie
Posted by Andrew on 11/11/2010, 9:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Forum Newbie"
Hi Clare
Excellent reply: you are progressing already!
As for your realisation that the issue with trains and planes is "the anxiety of having people there knowing how long I have been in the loo!"
Trust me: no-one is interested in the least. If they look at you as you walk along the aisle, it is because they are bored of looking at a seat back for hours and any movement is a change. Passengeres get into a sort of stupor of passivity - rather like watching mindless TV.
On a train you can if you wish wander along to the next carriage towards the buffet; that way none of your neighbours see you go into the loo.
A cognitive exercise is to imagine that I ask you to do a market survey; equipped with badge, clipboard and pen, you are to go along the carriage asking people to answer a couple of questions for a survey; Q1 do you pay attention to people going to the loo? Q2 when did the last person go and who was it?
What answers do you think you would get?
You would get either a) bemusement or (b) the responder would be offended that anyone should think that s/he could possibly interested in such a thing.
Think about it
Andrew
Re: Forum Newbie
Posted by Mark L on 11/11/2010, 11:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Forum Newbie"
Hi Clare,
Firstly welcome to the message board. Im glad you are able to take on board Andrew's advice easily. Iv just remembered something else regarding queing for only 3 toilets or so...
The person who watches you go in wont be waiting for you, as another toilet will be free in the meantime. This also applies to the person behind them. What I mean is that no one is waiting for you specifically as there are other toilets available - no one knows whos gone in where and how long they've been in there for.
Although Iv made huge improvements since finding this site a year or 2 ago, I can relate to everything you have said. I used to struggle when I had friends over round my house even when iv been upstairs! Im sure you will easily improve.
Speak to Andrew about going on a workshop. I know that this problem affects mainly men, but women have attended workshops before...
Another option to consider is self catheterisation. From reaing your posts, I dont think you will need to go down this route but it is an option if anxiety does get the better of you. Basically you can carry catheters around with you in your handbag (they are very small for women) and you can quickly use them if you are having dificulty. Having them on you takes away the pressure as you know you have a failsafe, and because of this chances are you will never need to use them.
Please keep us updated and hope your trip goes ok. Good move with the choice of seat!
Mark
Re: Forum Newbie
Posted by Clare on 14/11/2010, 1:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Forum Newbie"
Andrew/Mark
Thank you for your messages.
Just finding this site and reading your messages has removed 80% of the anxiety already and made me realise an awful lot of how I felt was wrong! Thank you soo much!
The flight is Wednesday so not long now! I guess I will just have to wait and see how it goes...
Clare
Re: Forum Newbie
Posted by Clare on 25/11/2010, 8:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Forum Newbie"
Just a little update from me...
I managed to get through both flights without getting desperate for a pee and tried hard to keep my anxiety to a minimum. I couldn't face going into the toilet, I know I probably should have but on the 737s they are so pokey I just couldn't.
On Monday I had a 90 minute train journey to London and I managed to pee on the train! I was still really stressed out at that point but being able to go eventually was a huge step forward. I kept telling myself what you have advised 'it is mine for as long as I need it' and I had walked into a different carriage too.
I have also had a scout online and think I probably have IBS (which my Mother has) so this may be making matters worse... might pop to the Dr at some point.
Thank you so much for the support so far, it has already made such a difference,
Clare
Re: Forum Newbie
Posted by sim on 25/11/2010, 10:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Forum Newbie"
I have had this problem for years! I think it started at school when I used to get bullied in the toilets, someone would push the back of my knees whilst I was at the urinals and I think that's where it all started.
One thing I don't understand is that I know where it stems from but this doesn't seem to help. When people have irrational fears such as spiders then therapy helps them and they can ultimately confront their fears and overcome them. I suppose it is more of a combination of psychological and physical fear though.
I find it really hard to go at a urinal unless I am alone, if I start then someone comes in then I freeze and can't continue. It must seem strange to them that I am still standing there when they have finished. When I used to go to pubs and clubs some of the cubicles didn't have locks on them and it was a real nightmare having to go, knowing that anyone could walk in at anytime.
If I'm at an airport and there is a massive queue for the toilets then I wait until it has gone and then try to find a cubicle. I have real problems trying to go in a coach/bus toilet, the combination of vibration and lack of space makes it impossible.
Sometimes I have held it in for so long that it takes me ages to go even in a cubicle! My girlfriend seems to think that I have an enlarged prostate but I don't think that's the case. Sometimes if I am too hot or dehydrated then it takes a long time too. Very frustrating!
It's good to find that people have similar problems and have overcome them. I still find it hard to talk about it and still feel a bit ashamed and angry but you all seem very friendly and supportive.
Re: Forum Newbie
Posted by Andrew on 27/11/2010, 10:35 am, in reply to "Re: Forum Newbie"
Hi Sim
Bullying in school toilets is unfortunately a common cause of shy bladder. You have been unlucky there. Knowing this answers the question why, but does not remove the condition. Your threat response has been reinforced over time, and so it will take time to weaken it via continuous positive experiences. Which is where CBT comes in. It is a psychological condition, and so the CBT method used for spider phobia is used for this as well.
As for your shame: ditch it. Shame applies to something you have done that you know you should not have done e.g driving through a red light and so knocking over a pedestrian who thought you would stop.
Most phobias are due to bad luck: it was something done TO you, not BY you, and so the shame should be felt by those who bullied you. Now they are adults, if they were told of the consequences of their actions, chances are they would be ashamed (we have heard of this happening).
Anger is OK, you have a right to feel angry that you have been put through all this. Can you direct the energy of your anger into deciding that you are going to get rid of this miserable condition?
You say you find it hard to talk about; use this safe place - the forum - to get things off your chest and to mix with others. It is a safe place; we are supportive and friendly because we are a charity comprising guys who have been through it.
Can you read out linked website as well - see the link at top of the page - there is lots of info there.
Then consider attending one of our weekend workshops; you will be amazed at the progress you can make. You can read feedback from participants on this forum.