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Feedback on Manchester follow-up workshop Nov 2012
Posted by Ronnie on 20/11/2012, 3:53 pm Message modified by board administrator 20/11/2012, 5:27 pm
Two years on from a beginners' workshop, I got round to signing up for a follow-up. Very glad I did - it's a different but equally positive experience. The first time, for me at least, was a bit of an emotional roller-coaster, but also "life-changing" would not be an exaggeration. No matter how much in recent years could be read and rationally digested from this website and elsewhere, it was actually meeting and sharing the workshop experience with a group of decent, normal people who suffer from the same difficulty that really turned the corner for me. But, back on your own, that initial lift can begin to wear off a bit, especially if you haven't, like me, been as assiduous as you originally intended in keeping up a routine for improvement. The follow-up workshop is a more relaxed affair, because you're not carrying the same weight of baggage and anxiety as before, but for me it's provided the boost I needed to get back into making more progress, and particularly working on eliminating those safety behaviours one by one.
The best thing, though, about the workshops for me is still just the informal contact with other people who have travelled the AP road. My beginners' workshop wasn't just a fluke, once again you couldn't wish to meet a nicer or more mutually supportive bunch of people with ordinary and interesting lives, jobs and so forth ... who just happen also to have paruresis.
I know the workshop has given me the confidence to make further progress, so a big thank you again from me to all the other participants, everyone who supports UKPT, and especially of course to Andrew whose continuing efforts make all this possible.
Re: Feedback on Manchester follow-up workshop Nov 2012
I couldn't agree more with Ronnie's comments. Only 6 months had passed since my beginner's workshop, but even so, it was well worth having a "refresher". Like many people I didn't entirely stick to my plan, but this weekend has restored the good feeling that followed the beginner's workshop - talking to, and practising with other sufferers works wonders for your confidence.
Thanks once again to Andrew, and to all the guys I met. Good luck to everyone!
Re: Feedback on Manchester follow-up workshop Nov 2012
I just want to endorse everything Ronnie and Sean said. I found the weekend relaxed, supportive and, ultimately, exhilarating.
I was not expecting it to work so well, and feared it might even be a nightmare. The core reason for this was that, after a good beginners' workshop in January, I had only desensed till March (and then only once a week) before letting all my old safety habits take over again. And, for me, experiencing a little success / internal change and then feeling powerless again over something I really wanted to be able to do without any fuss was very, very challenging. In fact, I wasn't only feeling nervous before the follow-up weekend. I was feeling shame.
In other words, I was doing what I suspect many fellow APs are also very good at - beating myself up!
So... it was GREAT, with bells on, to find these negative feelings evaporate once the first desensing session was underway. And I managed to do so much more than I had thought I would. We all have our own targets, of course. For me, it was being able to use a urinal regardless of who was there. Over the course of the four desensing sessions, I reached that goal. Thank you to all my fellow participants (lovely, normal guys) and of course to Andrew.
My message to anyone reading this is: don't think this can't be you. I remember reading a testimony on some website a good few years ago (when I was first looking for help) that was elated and maybe just a little effusive: 'I can now pee anywhere! Heaving nightclubs! Football stadiums! Army barracks!' You get the picture. And I remember feeling deflated. It made me feel further away from ever getting the better of paruresis.
But the information, the support and, most of all, the experience of success DO work. The single most important piece of information, for me, was that I couldn't MAKE myself pee. But I COULD just decide not to care. Which of course relaxed that old internal sphincter! And the support of the men there, and the feeling I got off the 'event' nature of the weekend, meant I could really commit to not caring. As I said earlier, I am very good at beating myself up; the key to my success was (will be...) refusing to do so. I'm letting go, and letting it flow!
Line of the weekend? 'Those who mind, don't matter; those who matter, don't mind.'
So read this message board. Go to a Beginners Workshop. Go to a Follow Up Workshop. And without going too far out of your comfort zone, just taking things step by step, DESENSE, DESENSE, DESENSE! And then desense some more.
That's what I'm determined to do, anyway. Goodbye, all safety behaviours; hello, the real me!
Re: Feedback on Manchester follow-up workshop Nov 2012
So what I can I add to the other comments about the workshop - for me it was only a 6 week break from the first workshop, and although I had made good progress at the first workshop I still felt I had some way to go along the journey to where I will be comfortable.
The follow-up workshop felt like a much more relaxed weekend than the initial - there was no more "learning the theory" but an absolute focus on de-sensing. For me this started at the level I knew I was comfortable at (being able to use a cubicle with other people around) and quickly progressed to being able to use a urinal in some circumstances. As I leave the weekend I can now use a urinal in non-busy toilets (where there are gaps either side of me) but in a way it's not about the progress I made but how I feel inside that is the biggest change.
I now approach using public toilets in a much more calm way. I feel comfortable that I might take a while to get started, or that I might not be able to go at all, and I can metaphorically shrug my shoulders and say "ok I'll try again later". I am much more in tune with what is likely to make it difficult for me to go, and feel really able to cope with that without it being a problem any more.
I'm not cured - I have had a misfire since attending, but that's ok - I could see what was "wrong" with that environment for me, so I went somewhere else and all was good.
I've made masses of progress on both workshops for which I want to say a big big thanks to Andrew, and to all the really nice people I've met. To anyone who is thinking about attending a follow up workshop (or a beginners) I would say that it really is a comfortable thing to do - the exercises can be challenging but nothing is threatening and the whole process is really rewarding... especially when you look back and see how much progress you've made.
I'm now off to find a public toilet....
Re: Feedback on Manchester follow-up workshop Nov 2012
I went to the beginners’ workshop in Manchester about 6 weeks prior to the follow-up workshop.
I was a little hesitant about going to the follow-up workshop because I hadn’t done a great deal of practice – only two or three desensing sessions, but Andrew encouraged me to come – thanks. I can’t put into words how please I am that I went to the follow-up.
At the end of the beginners’ workshop, I felt that I had the tools to control my AP, and that was true, but a few of the old habits had crept back in, and the follow-up was the perfect way to banish them (for good!).
I’d left the beginners’ workshop being able to urinate in the hotel room with someone in the room and the bathroom door open a crack – which was a massive step from where I had been at the start of the beginners’ workshop, where I could only pee with someone down the hall and bedroom and bathroom doors locked.
I was pretty worried that I wouldn’t be able to build on the progress of the beginners’ workshop, but by taking very small, gradual steps over Friday evening and Saturday, by Sunday morning I was able to work up to the stage of having someone stood with their back to me with the toilet door open. This was inconceivable for me prior to the follow-up workshop and I couldn’t comprehend what I might try to do from there.
What happened next was as incredible as it was unexpected.
I decided to try to use the urinal in the hotel restaurant toilet and for the first time in 20 years (yes twenty!) I was able to urinate in a urinal. It was an epiphany – such a sudden and striking change unlike anything I can describe. The innumerable small steps and repetition had added up and given me the ability to pee at a urinal – it felt like a miracle, and something that I couldn’t have imagined doing in my wildest dreams prior to the follow-up workshop.
Following my success in the hotel, I went out around Manchester and was able to urinate at a urinal with a stranger in the toilet who was peeing a bit further along– and I was able to urinate in a cubicle in a very busy public toilet. I must reiterate that prior to the follow-up workshop I hadn’t urinated at a urinal for 20 years and I couldn’t even urinate standing up in a locked cubicle if there were other people in the toilet – and sitting down was a real struggle with more misfires than successes. Now I can pee at a urinal! What a change.
Aside from the freedom that being able to urinate in public places has given me, I feel much more confident in myself – I walk with my head held high and I won’t accede to other people without question like I tended to do in the past. People can move out of my way when I’m walking down the street.
I don’t think I’m being overly dramatic saying that Andrew, UKPT and the workshops have changed my life, and the follow-up workshop was a total ‘game changer’. All the small steps, repetition, hard work and even the setbacks have paid off.
I know that I will have to work at controlling my AP, and I might take a few knocks, but so what, I know I can deal with it and I can now go out and enjoy myself without having to worry about where I’m going to go for a pee.
If you’re reading this and thinking “there’s no way I could do that, my AP is too severe”, remember that before the beginners’ workshop I could only really pee at home with the door locked and other people downstairs – anything other than that was really difficult, and peeing in a public toilet was a complete nightmare. Now I can pee at a urinal in a relatively quiet, spacious toilet, or in a cubicle if the toilet is busier. I know that by continuing to practice and take small, gradual steps I’ll become more and more confident at urinating in public toilets – I still have a long way to go (i.e. toilets on public transport are still a hurdle for me) but I’ll get there with practice.
Take my word for it, go to the beginners’ workshop and start to manage your AP rather than letting AP manage you.
For those who have been to the beginners’ workshop, I’ll just say a little bit about how the follow-up workshop compared. It is a much more relaxed format, as it isn’t necessary to teach the ‘theory’ behind AP; although topics were refreshed when requested. People could go and do whatever practice they wanted to do, whenever they wanted to do it and Andrew was always on hand to advise/support when needed. As with the beginners’ workshop, all the attendees could just chat openly and freely about AP with no one passing judgment.
One last thing, it was really nice to see some friends from the beginners’ workshop and great to make some new friends too. As at the beginners’ workshop, everyone was helpful, kind and supportive (not to mention humorous).
If anyone wants to ask me anything about the workshops, please feel free to ask.
Rich
Re: Feedback on Manchester follow-up workshop Nov 2012
I returned last weekend from the follow up workshop in Manchester. This was just six weeks after the mind blowing experience of the beginner's workshop.
Before the beginners workshop I could pee in a public cubicle or at a very quiet public urinal with no one present. I have played team sports all my life and I also like of a few pints of Guinness. So busy pubs and football dressing rooms and indeed football stadiums are very familiar to me. I only say this because a lot of guys on the workshop seemed curious about this. My AP, while mild, was not the least severe of the participants by any means. I think it's just that I adopted my own crazy raft of coping strategies. On the surface I would appear to most people as a big burly Gaelic football playing, Guinness drinking, confident guy. Underneath AP has been eating me alive from the inside out since I was 12.
The follow up workshop was a different experience. It was much less stressful and it was nearly all practice which was great. I had done de-sensing once a week between workshops. However, I realized quickly that I had lost ground on where I was after the first workshop. By the debrief on Saturday I was just about back to where I was at the end of the first workshop. I was flying back Saturday night. I hand't lost spirit but I was frustrated and annoyed with myself. I was in my head over-thinking everything.
Then something amazing happened. Gabriele wanted to do some more work, I had two or three hours before my flight so we went downstairs to the hotel toilets and did some urinal work. I knew Gabriele well from the first workshop but we hadn't ever worked together. Somehow there was less pressure, no judgement, no thoughts, we started talking to each other at the urinal and we both started to pee. We moved next to each other, tried the same thing, same result. Then we went back to the bar had a drink and tried the same thing twice more, it worked every time.
Somehow, seeing someone else and myself succeed without judgement unlocked a door in my mind, it wasn't about positive thoughts or negative thoughts, it was no thought, no judgement, just a bond between two blokes. Elation afterwards, I had never in my life peed next to a grown man at a urinal.
I met up with another workshop participant yesterday in Dublin. It was another fantastic experience. It's such a relief to be able to talk to another fantastic human being and normalise this. Then go off and visit some public toilets as if its the most normal thing in the world.
I have also agreed to be a point of contact for anyone in Dublin who would like to meet up. Andrew has my details.
Thanks so much again to Andrew and the most amazing bunch of guys you could ever hope to meet.
If you have AP and it is eating you up, please take this step. To say it's been life changing is no understatement.
Re: Feedback on Manchester follow-up workshop Nov 2012
thank You for your comments, and I would like to say thank you for the UKPT and Andrew!
Five years ago I found the website of the UKPT. After hesitating for some month, finally I went to a beginner workshop and after a month to a follower. At these time my life completely changed. I got tools to cope with my AP.
But I wanted more and more progress, I wanted to prove for everybody but rather myself. I had to pee everyday in a public toilet. I behaved like a gambler: I chose the trickiest places to pee, risking my progress. Besides, my practise plan was too strict and high level expectation of myself derailed me. After some uneasy situation I started to misfire and my well-known Boo Monster returned and took the control over my life again. I avoided the public toilets and when I had to go, I was sitting and waiting in a locked cubicle but I was not able to. Anxiety, sometimes panic, self pity, isolation and loneliness followed me everywhere. Overmore I had sleeping problem, the nightmares returned too. Today I know I have mixed the practise and my privet life.
During the last three years I was thinking to go to a workshop again, but I did not have the courage to do so. I thought I was a looser…
Months and years passed and finally I plucked up the courage and I wrote a letter to Andrew. He encouraged me to register the next follower workshop and reassured me, there are some people, who need to have more workshops.
Arriving at the workshop everyone was very kind and after a while I chilled out. I am not English but the language barrier did not disturb me. Andrew sometimes translated to me. We talked about our problems openly, in a very honest way. The stories were so familiar, almost all could be mine. We shared our resolutions for the old and for the new habits.
The desens started again. Friday night I was able to pee with opened door – in the presence of someone in the hotel room. Saturday evening I was able to pee at a urinal with one mate – in a safe public toilet. By Sunday noon I experienced that I was standing in a cue in a very overcrowded public toilet, waiting for a free urinal. I got a free one and I peed at a urinal while thereabouts ten men were standing behind my back and waiting for a free urinal. Amazing? I just did what Andrew and my mates advised me: change the way of my thinking.
At the end of the workshop I was over a lot of public peeing. I understood that the question is not the pee or not to pee but how I feel myself in a public toilet. When I feel comfortable I feel free to pee, because pee is happen. That is what I have to work on!
I arrived as a poor lonely man and I left as a rich person. I was given fellowships, acceptance, self-confident, pride, calm and HOPE and I met a lot of very good people. Besides it was a great English lesson too. I really enjoyed all the weekend. It was an invaluable experience.
During the last week I visited some public toilet, not to pee, just to feel comfortable. I stood at the urinals without peeing, just do the fake with an inner smile and in some occasion I peed almost against my will. I work on my progress, I am planning my strategy how to cope with my AP.
When You suffer alone, please do not hesitate, just register the next workshop!
Robert
Re: Feedback on Manchester follow-up workshop Nov 2012
More than a week has passed since the follow up workshop. And a lot of things have happened in my mind.
Before to get there I didn't know what expecting from this experience. Beginner workshop last month gave me more trust in myself, in the work I was doing, exposure therapy, commitment and so on. But was a hard work and results were slow. Before joining beginner workshop my paruresis was enought severe and I was no able to go in cubicles anywhere else my home and hide streets (the only condition that saved in part my social life, which was really busy). Ma paruresis has been always mild until two years ago. I didn't know about this condition, and I was ok to don't be able to go in every situation in cubicles, never using urinal. But two years ago starts to became really severe and always worst and I was no able to go even in my home with people present.
As I said after beginner workshop I was better and I was starting to transfer exposure work in normal life, but really slow. For example I've got some succes at friend's home or in cubicles in empty bars.
My follow up expectation was to get more confidential in toilets and more relaxed about my AP, and transfer fastly my exposure work in normal life.
What happened in that weekend was unbelievable.
Step by step I was always more confidential and relaxed. Saturday morning after last evening desensitization I was able to go with Robert behind me in the hotel room, so in the afternoon the program was to start working in the hotel toilets.
Step by step, pee after pee with Robert we start to get relaxed practicing at the urinal. The environment was quite, so we could do many attempts, washing hands and come back at the urinal trying adding variations between each others (behind, beside, talking). It was the first time at the urinal with somebody after probably 22 years (I'm 32). Sometime somebody got in, but we were prepared and got always more relaxed, because we split the anxiety together step by step. So sometime we were also able to have a pee at the urinal with some stranger around. I was so happy. And then as John wrote I start working with him and I was really surprised to be able pee with him too at the urinal. Was really funny that moment, because we started smiling together about that. It was like we forgot to be there practicing, instead we were there like two friends sharing a pee, enjoying that.
So I started to believe that was not a coincidence, and something was really changing. I can count in saturday session about fifty / sixty pee. A lot of work.
The day after I almost was no sure about what happened the day before. It was too fast. But soon with Robert confirmed our level at the urinal in the hotel toilet.
We were ready for working outside.
Five of us went out, changing spot after spot. Sometime together, sometime alone and attempt after attempt getting always more relaxed with people around. I started to go alone and have a pee with strangers beside me at the urinal and I could not believe in that. And I end sunday session in the most crowed toilet, drying off with both urinal beside me busy and a lot of people waiting in the queue.
Was not so easy but before reach this goal when I was no able, I immediately get back again after a quick relaxing and with the idea that it was possible.
Success after success I could not hide my happiness hugging the others and celebrating as I was at the stadium.
I remember perfectly the freedom sensation of drying off in that busy toilet, something incredible two days before.
Then I came back to Italy with the idea that my paruresis condition was over. I went in Manchester and Milan airport toilet at the urinal and also twice during the flight. I broke immediately my safety behaviors, not caring how much water I drank and enjoying beers at the airports.
And I was really ok the days later going at friend's home.
But there was a moment that something strange happened. I was alone thinking that I was recovered and I felt a strange sensation. I was almost sad. Something like loosing your purpose.
And during last week I was always nervous, over thinking. About being able to go in every situations in my city, club or at parties with friends or girls home. And I had a lot of misfires also in cubicles in follow weekend. I went also to an exposure session last saturday and was really difficult to go at the urinal with people present. And I've started to minimize my successes, feeling unsure.
Yesterday I realized what was happening. And I read already about that. Especially in paruresis stories but I was no aware of that. I've been over thinking in these last two years about my paruresis. Planning, looking for answers. Feeling anxious. Avoiding. Protecting myself. It's like I develop e new nature were paruresis is the normal condition and this nature wants to survive. It's like the brain is junkie of this tension trying to bring me back and put me down again in that condition. Something like Stockholm sindrome when you fall in love for your abductor. I'm sure that this is the reason of these worries, and the fear to get back in the worst condition I felt. There is something unconscious and distorted inside me that doesn't want to disappear. It's a very subtle boo monster, that works in an unusual way. It doesn't speak, because is your hide nature and live together with you. It's not just a thought.
But now I'm not scare about that. Instead I'm happy that I'm aware of that. If I didn't do the workshop I've never be aware of this kind of joke. Now I have tools for getting over of this behavior, and the most I have the evidence. What I've got in these beautiful experience is completely printed in my mind and memory. If I think, I can feel again that freedom sensation in the last session. I can feel the happiness that I share with the other buddies, the hugging with Ronnie in the end, the confidence with Robert and John at the urinals, gags, and the exciting sensation of trying always something harder with no fear. Celebrating every succes and feeling good and relaxed, also if a misfire happened. And the last hug with Andrew telling him my achievements.
This experience can be thinking like a safe zone were I can refer if I feel unsure or anxious. Because is something that really touched me inside, and if I close my eyes I can get again there. Is the evidence. I believe in that.
I admit that here in my place it's more difficult, and there everything was fast, but if I've done once I can do twice. So now I'll start to don't care more if I pee or I don't pee. I don't want plan anymore. No safety behaviors. I'll go inside the situations and repeat if I need. And come back and repeat if I still need. I have trust.
It was really a great experience. Thanks to everybody, especially of course to Andrew.
I just did what Andrew and my mates advised me: change the way of my thinking. 
but how I feel myself in a public toilet. When I feel comfortable I feel free to pee, because pee is happen. That is what I have to work on!