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Hi, just to say hello to this forum and thank you for the knowledge that there are others, and that there are possibilities for improvement that seem to have worked for some people. I'm male, 58, a Scot living in NW England, married, four grown-up kids, had a career etc, just about retired now, coped with this problem all my life, but not without a lot of inner turmoil and unhappiness.
Can't honestly remember now how it was up until the end of school ... think I may have always avoided in my teenage years without really registering it in my mind, if that makes sense. Vivid memory, though, of first year at university, in a halls of residence gents at some social event, disco probably, queing behind a line of guys to get a turn at the three or four adjacent urunals, bursting for a pee, and being totally incapable when my turn came. Confusion, embarrassment, fear ... always the same afterwards. No good at an open urinal if there were other guys within sight. Not as bad as some I've read here, always OK in a cubicle, if the coast was completely clear at a urinal, at home, etc., and half a chance if it was the Victorian style urinals with elbow room and side dividers.
Until I was in my mid-30s I thought I was some sort of unique weird aberration! Then about 20 years ago I saw something on TV (an Alan Bennett play?) and read something somewhere (in the Guardian?) that suggested there could be others, and that at least helped my perception a little, but didn't really change the 'performance'. But I'd developed ways of managing, still had a social life, decent job, travelled, got married, kids, and so on ... but never a day without planning the toilet tactics, nipping in at lunchtime at work when no-one else around, making sure I wouldn't need to go on a trip to the cinema, managing the liquid intake generally, things like that. But quite a big impact on the scope of what I chose to do, both socially and professionally. One example .. would always have liked to be more sociable in a group of males, 'mates' if you like, but have avoided that because of the likelihood of the peeing problem becoming centre stage, so to speak, in those situations. I make relatively light of it now, at my age, but there was a time when I could get very bitter about the opportunities and experiences in life that I was probably missing. And regularly that desperate anxiety about the next failure, and the sense of disppointment, and self-hatred almost, when it happened. A daily self-torture that one had little choice but to try and live with as best as possible.
Sorry to go on so long, it's something of a relief just to be writing this and knowing that some people who understand may shortly be reading it. At one stage I even had a medical examination under general anaesthetic to see if there was a prostate problem or something, but of course there wasn't. This was maybe around late-80s, early 90's, I think the consultant thought I was some sort of nutter and we were both slightly embarrassed about it I think. The couple of GP's I'd eventually summoned up the courage to mention it to had nothing to offer on the subject really. One thing that is related is that I am probably quite an anxious personality, slightly given to anxiety/depression generally and have been on mild anti-depressants a couple of times over the years. Not entirely down exclusively to the urinating problem, but I'd say that was always a large part of the background in my mind. Amazing how it can tend to dominate your day-to-day existence and mood, no matter how much you tell yourself it should be relatively unimportant.
Anyway, over the last few years there has been a little more public reference, and sites like this are great. I'd seriously like to think about trying the 'workshop', although it might not be easy to make a weekend away. The other thing I'd like to explore is informal contact with other sufferers of a similar outlook, maybe either just by email or even to meet ... if there's anyone in NW who might like to follow this up, please give me a shout.
Thanks for reading, hope it doesn't sound too self-pitying or boring. Just feels quite good to be able to say all that, even if just to cyberspace!
Re: Just another story
Posted by Andrew on 25/1/2010, 9:15 am, in reply to "Just another story"
Hi Ronnie
Good to hear fropm you; delighted you have found this site and have found it helpful. BTW no need to apologise "sorry for going on so long, hope it doesn't sond self-pitying or boring"; you didn't and it doesn't! So many guys do this, it must be our personality. That is what this site is here for: to get it all out in the open to an understanding set or readers. Go on, post some more :-)
Your story is all too familiar, and from my personal experience as well. That TV program: I think I saw it as well; an Alan Bennet sketch of him going to a two man set up, to be followed in by an old bloke who finishes before he does, turns to leave and says something like "people like you should be shot" i.e. implying that AB had ulterior motives for being there. Hey ho.
Then I saw a western where a guy hancuffed to a guard said something like "I cant go when you are watching me" in order to distract his guard and effect an escape.
Thing is things got better for me; I just go where I am comfortable and no longer obsess about it. The workshops will help you to get there; given the impact on one's life, you just have to treat it as first priority. Like a treatment for say cancer; no-one would put that off.
Can relate to your story. Time for a Workshop. I am just over 40:-) and have attended a Beginners and a Follow up Workshop. Would it surprise you to find out they are very enjoyable, plenty of time for socialising and meeting like minded people. In the process, finding out you are normal after all. You can change the way you feel about AP.
Welcome to this site, glad you found us! Its never too late to start tackling this so why not do it now? Sacrificing one weekend is a very small price to pay to get on top of this! You will have a great time, meet some great guys (and girls?!) and have a whole new perspective on this.
Keep us updated with any thoughts or questions etc.
Thanks for your replies, guys, and I appreciate the sincerity of the 'workshop' recommendations, I hope maybe I will be able to do that sometime. But in some ways for me it's too late ... at 58, I'm sort of reconciled to the problem, it doesn't upset me as much as it used to, and my family having grown up and being more or less retired, the circumstances in which it becomes a real difficulty are less anyway. Or maybe I've just become good at 'avoidance' and sort of reconciled to it as a way of life, I don't know.
But the best thing would be if people like me don't have to suffer in isolation for the years that I and, from what I read here, many others did, thinking they were alone in this. So any publicity is good, and gives younger guys the chance to come to terms with it more easily hopefully. So well done people like Jon Snow and the Charlie Brooker programme and so on, I think if there had been that sort of openness on the subject when I was 18 it would have been a less painful experience.
Hello Ronnie. We are similar age (I'm 55), I've had AP for over 45 years and like you had become "reconciled" to the problem. However I have just completed a Beginners Workshop in Manchester (see seperate posting) and feel so much better about myself and my AP condition - which I am already starting to deal with. Apparently there have been many successes for people decades older than us, so it actually is never too late! Geoff.BT
Ronnie, I am one of those who are decades older than you, whom Geoff mentions I was 84 ( ! ) when I discovered that I was not the sole "freak" that I had always imagined. Most of what you wrote in your initial message could have been written by me, so imagine my relief at discovering this site.
I have since been on two Workshops and sincerely recommend that you do the same. You are by no means too old and will never regret it. The psychological impact alone of meeting other quite normal and very nice guys who are trying to deal with "our" condition is enough to make it worthwhile. I am not completely "cured", if that is ever possible, but my life, old as I am, has been turned around.
In the meantime get a copy of Stephen Soiffer's book "Shy Bladder Syndrome" and start using some of the self-help techniques which he explains and which will be dealt with again at the Workshops. It's one of the most helpful and encouraging books I have ever read.
Hi Ronnie, I live in the northwest and have just posted "job interview". This is the first time I have ever publicly recognises that I have a problem and have always kept it secret. I would be willing to meet face to face with you but not sure how to arrange this without publicly posting my phone number or email which I dont want to do. This week would be good though as my wife is away and wouldnt find out. God it sounds sordid. Any Ideas. maybe just name a time and place and meet up.
Hi Mark, if you click on the little envelope sign beside my name at the top of my postings you should be able to email me. (Left click gives me option to use email, right click lets me copy the email address.)
Ronnie.. great post, it sounds like we've had the same life. Thought i was reading about myself. Get a van ronnie, its like having a mobile portaloo lol.
Dave, thanks for your comment. One thing that has struck me very forcefully, reading this website and the Soifer book, after all these years of comparative isolation, is just how amazingly similar so many of our stories and experiences are. Exactly the same point emerged when, just a few weeks ago, thanks again to this forum, I sat down face to face with a fellow sufferer and chatted about what we had gone through in our lives. Not just similar, but very often practically identical, experiences. It's both a comforting and a disturbing realisation. Disturbing because, in my case at least, it makes me sad for the fact the we could not have got together all those years ago and provided some sort of mutual support when it might have made such a difference to our lives.
But as others have pointed out, it's never too late, and I would definitely like to get involved with a workshop, just sorry the next opportunity is probably still months away.
As for ways of coping, I agree, do what you can, we all have our personal "vans" of one sort or another and that's important to be able to lead some sort of normal life. (And I realise too that people like you and me are the lucky ones to some extent, and some of the other stories I read here, where some sufferers really do go through quite horrendous difficulties, genuinely do sometimes bring tears to my eyes.) But in a way that's all part of the "avoidance" cycle, and ultimately I would still like to try to overcome the underlying habit so that we could ditch the van and just get on with the trivial business of having a pee like everyone else. If it's possible, and for some at least that does seem to have happened, then i'd like to aim for that.
Respect ronnie thats the way to look at it. I was blown away by the workshop, it was certainly a moment in my life, suddenly in a room with a number of people who share your hidden 'problem'.. very liberating.. propelled me to where i am now, think it was maybe 8 years ago. I worried about it way too much. but since then got married and changed jobs, grown up, im sure as you know ap's a weight to carry around when your youger, i still did lots with my life but i would be lieing if i said it couldnt have been better.. I always do piss alone but sadly do still suffer ap. it just catches me out.. my brains scarred with worrying about it way too much.
Re: Just another story
Posted by Ronnie on 20/10/2010, 7:22 pm, in reply to "Just another story"
It's nearly a year since I first posted here, and I just want to say thanks to everyone who recommended a workshop. Recently been to a "beginners" event in Manchester, and it was great, came away feeling better about this than I ever have, I am so much more hopeful now. (See the comments on the other current thread for Manc workshop, agree with them all, and such a supportive group of people. Thanks to all of them too.) So Mark and anyone else thinking about it, go for it, you will never regret it.
