U.K. PARURESIS TRUST

UK paruresis trust

This Discussion Board is for men who find it difficult or impossible to urinate in a public or social situation. Women should use the women's Board.
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Hypnosis

Posted by Trevor on 29/9/2009, 3:39 pm

I've suffered with this problem for over 25 years and just wondered if anyone has had any success or failure using hypnosis techniques?

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Mark L on 29/9/2009, 10:50 pm, in reply to "Hypnosis"

Hi,

since I discovered this message board about a year ago, I have heard mixed reviews on hypnotherapy. Iv had 2 sessions of hypnotherapy for my AP and didnt notice any difference however some have reported a slight improvement. I havent heard it curing anyone.

Im not sure on hypnosis though im afraid, its different from hypnotherapy!

Mark

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Andrew on 30/9/2009, 1:50 pm, in reply to "Hypnosis"

Hi Trevor

You may be interested in our FAQ on this subject on our website.

http://www.ukpt.org.uk/first_visit/first_visit_Faq.htm

cheers

Andrew

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by graham on 4/11/2009, 10:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

I have tried this twice with two different hypnotists but didnt find any significant change,that doesnt mean to say it doesnt work for everyone but i think you need to find one who actually understands what wrong first,I went to one who "specialized" in phobia,s but this was just a general statement i think and non specific to paruresis

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Steve on 15/1/2011, 5:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

I have had this problem for approx 40 years and I tried hypnosis about 2 years ago. I had 6 sessions and sadly they never worked. This may have been because the therapist had never treated this problem before. I felt she was uncomfortable with the complaint and never found the right words to say to me ? This could of course also apply to me feeling awkward with the therapist and not letting her "do her stuff". So to summarise I think anyone trying hypnosis should try a hypno-therapist who has a track record of successfully treating this complaint, if such a therapist exists ?

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by alex on 5/11/2009, 7:11 am, in reply to "Hypnosis"

as paruresis is now thought to be more of a social anxiety disorder rather than a phobia then CBT or other versions of this approach are the best way forwards

too many people have told me that hypnosis does not work for them
this does not mean that for some there is help of one kind or another
my advice is to get to a workshop where we know people get some help

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Eddie O' on 5/11/2009, 8:25 pm, in reply to "Hypnosis"

Hi Trevor,

I have had 12 week (hours) of hypnotherapy, I honestly believe it is a waste of time and money. It might make you feel better about yourself during the course of the therapy. should you decide to go for it all I can say is be ready some disappointment you may experience when the course is finished, as for me I'm putting my faith in a workshop & hoping for the best

Best of luck Trevor

Eddie O'

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Graham on 6/11/2009, 10:26 am, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

hi eddie,

As i say i tried two differnet people and like you although it does help you to relax it had little or no effect.

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by aNON on 16/11/2009, 5:27 pm, in reply to "Hypnosis"

I had reputable hypnosis for a couple of years re:this problem (amongst others) and 12 years on I still have this wee wee issue. I attended NLP courses by one of the NLP co-creators and... I can relax, but not pee... It is like its hardwired. I still think the above options will work for some people but must say i was very disappointed with the lack of results since hypnosis is meant to be a way to affect your brain and nervous system.

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Andrew on 16/11/2009, 10:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

Hi Anon

What degree of paruresis do you have i.e. where can you and cant you go?

I ask because I wonder whether hypnosis may work for mild cases but not for more severe caes.

cheers

Andrew

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Anon on 30/11/2009, 2:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

Hi. I can manage most urinals if there is no one around. Stalls mostly work if it ain't to busy or small. I always had problems going to pubs/concerts/open air places etc so ended up being a toilet monitorer. I don't go out to pubs drinking etc anymore. If I go to a show I always drive. Its a pure psychological issue.
I have been in some painful stressful situations over the years, but I would say overall I have a mild/mid condition 99%
I just done a Hypnotherapy course! And I still have this problem! My unconscious obviously won't be havin it!

Anon

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Pete L on 1/12/2009, 11:20 am, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

Hi Anon

Having had hypnoterapy myself I can concur that this particular condition doesn't get 'treated/ cured' by such means.

I've already said on a previous thread that this condition has a physical asscociation with it. You can talk about it and address teh issues in your head unitl you are blue in face, however, until you get the physical practice in, you will not fully address the issue.

You will note from many posts on this site the word 'workshop' mentioned. Having experienced a workshop myself, I can only say that this is the way. Get yourself to a workshop if you can.

In the meantime, read through the many posts and their replies. In addition, reading the book 'Shy Bladder Syndrome' WILL help.

Best wishes

Pete

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Anon on 1/12/2009, 6:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

Thanks Pete. Yeah I am very interested in a workshop so will email Andrew for some details.
I'm just curious - has ANYONE had any form of success using hypnosis?

Thanks.

Anon

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by AndyM on 1/12/2009, 10:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

I sought out and received hypnotherapy from a licensed, PhD Psychologist several years ago. Like many others who have reported on the UK and US Sites, it didn't prove to be The Answer. However, for me it wasn't a total loss. I had a history of either total avoidance of public loos or "bailing out" when the going got tough. Hypnotherapy helped me to quit quitting. So it did help me to deal much better with the Avoidant part of Avoidant Paruresis.

But compare that to what I've gained from Workshops. 2009 will be the first year I haven't attended one since 2005; the only reason (besides money) I didn't go this year is because I regularly practice with a couple of men I met at my last Workshop. Compared to 2005, I'd say I'm at least 85% improved. Airports,for example,used to be about an 8.9 degree-of-difficulty on the 10-scale. Today, I'd call it about a 4.0: still uncomfortable but always manage to go (EVEN if my first attempt is a no-go; no more quitting).

If you consider my progress as 100 Units, I'd say at least 95 of them came out of my Workshop experiences, and only 5 attributable to hypnotherapy. I believe that trying to overcome shy bladder without going to a Workshop is like trying to learn karate by reading about it.
--AndyM

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Anon on 18/12/2009, 4:21 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

Hi. Enjoyed reading this thread. Have sent off for details of the workshop and this may well be my last thoughts on the matter re hypnosis.
In terms of the unconscious and/or automatic muscle thing that seems to be the one of the main issues behind not peeing in certain places or/and if others present; a good hypnotist/NLP practitioner would be seeking to address the automatic (or unconscious) part of your brain( where wisdom. creativity, autonomic functions are, etc).Thus will be not exactly be direct and will use metaphor and voice tonality subtleties to put in ideas or suggestion that are relevant to your goal.
The harder you try to do it consciously, it works against. Force creates a resistance...let go and relax..let your unconscious sort the rest.
For me, letting go had been difficult..yet that is exactly what is required (i.e. let out the pee!)
Anyway, so I have a theory, not the practice, thus I have a kind of label called 'secondary gain'. I have this problem because in some way it benefits me or that the behavior serves a purpose or I get hidden secret gains on some level. I do say I think that sucks..it may be used by stuck or non too good practitioners.
How long winded is this...So, does anyone think they have secondary gain or that at some level AP benefits or protects etc you in some way?

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Steven on 1/12/2009, 7:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

Isn't hypnosis kinda responsible for Ap in the first place? By this I mean negative suggestions cause it, and this is a form of self hypnosis.

I clearly remember when I was a kid thinking that I couldn't pee in front of others and low and behold it started to get worse and now I'm where I am an Ap sufferer of 30 years.

So if negative suggestions can cause it, positive suggestions over a long period of time might be able to reverse it right?

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Pete L on 2/12/2009, 4:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

Hi Steven

I suppose the main problem here is that you are with the hypnotherapist at the wrong time. The time you probably need there support the most is in the toilet. Obviously you can not hold a therapy session in the toilet so, you are left with only facing this problem indirectly. Though the therapist may be able to retrain your thought pattern, you are still left with having to deal with the physical aspect of this problem, actually going to the toilets.

I guess this is why so many people say that hypnotherapy is not the way forward. Having had hynotherapy myself, I can only agree those comments.

Pete

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Andrew on 2/12/2009, 6:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

Hi Steven

Yes a negative suggestion can cause it, but dont forget the years of negative reinforcement that follow.

Secondly we often find that it is only while doing the graduated exposure, that the individual gets a proper handle on the factors that unsettle him or her.

Andrew

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Simon on 4/12/2009, 11:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

I would say the only way to treat this is a workshop combined with self desensing ( a long term comitment in your own time). However, things such as hypnotherapy, meditation, sport, yoga... anything you can do to relax and calm your mind must be good to help. I have found certain hobbies and interests have given me more self respect, and someone on the follow on workshop who had experienced hypnotherapy sent me a link (30 min mp3 hypnotherapy session). This is supposed to calm your mind inbetween desensing, and help you calm down in general.
It has been said that AP sufferers are generally sensitive and detached somewhat, and Andrew has said a lot of the causes of not being able to pee come from being stressed or anxious- so surely something like meditation/hypnotherapy will help here (how many people find it easier when they're pissed?).
However, as Andrew said above, the problem of AP is not only the mindset at the time (stress/anxiety) but also years of negative reinforcement (going in there expecting to fail).
A lot of sports men visualise lifting the trophy/crossing the finishing line. But only since the workshops I have in my memory banks images of success and normality when in public.
The same guy who gave me the mp3 read the book and started desensing on his own, but for me I needed the support of the workshop. Even he, I believe would recomend a workshop, to anyone - because it gives you the tools to visualise success and therefore achieve it.

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by The Therapist on 8/10/2010, 8:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

I have had pauresis for 20 years. I recently qualified as a hypnotherapist and have also trained in CBT. (inc Social Anxiety). I find hypnotherapy excellent with phobias but its effect on pauresis is limited

Before my training I would consider my pauresis varing from 80 -95% where 1 is not a problem and 100 is totally debilitating.
Self hypnosis took it to 75-85% so little change. (I have never told any other therapist about it so can only do self hypnosis.)
However in vitro exposure (visualisations in hypnosis) combined with gradually increasing difficulty in vivo exposure (real exposure)+ CBT took it down 5-15% over a few months. In particular the CBT experiments (like seeing how long you can stand there even though you dont want a pee)are very helpful in convincing your mind that nobody real cares whether you pee or not.

So my verdict is hypnosis is only effective if integrated with gradual in vivo exposure + CBT.

My recommendation is
1) Use this website
2) Find a CBT Practitioner
3) If the CBT Practitioner has hypnotherapy training it is a bonus but not a huge one.

Im glad to say pauresis doesn't dominate my life anymore but I suspect there will always be some level of it.

H

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by Andrew on 12/10/2010, 1:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

Hi there

Thanks very much for your informed and helpful advice. It is a refreshing pespective given that there are more and more websites trumpeting hypnosis on its own as being a quick cure. Unfortunately we get participants on every workshop who tell tales of spending up to £1,000 on hypnosis on it own, to no avail.

Out of professional interest, what level of paruresis did you have?

Severe: can usually manage at home on one's own, but struggle when visitors come, or at a friend or relative's house.

Intermediate: can usually manage domestic situations, but struggle in public cubicles.

Mild: can usually manage cubicles, but struggle to use urinals

I would be interested in some contact with you by email (support address at top of page), because your contribution would be good to put on our website. I would be interested in an entry aimed at sufferers, and another entry aimed at professional hypnotherapists.

Best wishes

Andrew
Chairman UKPT

Re: Hypnosis

Posted by The Therapist on 12/1/2011, 6:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Hypnosis"

Urinals could never do. At its worst had some problems in cubicles and only occasionally problems at home. Used to spend a lot of time on the road so services were a nightmare if busy. Used to dread concerts, sports matches or events. Used to get very drunk if I went to pubbing but even 8 pints didnt work in the end.
Now services urinals fine. Paddington station fine. Sometimes a problem if someone I know really well is stood right next to me but even managed that recently.
I have learned that just as the brain can learn fear, it can also unlearn it but it takes time, courage and determination
Hypnosis will only help if its used as a tool to help with systematic desensitisation. Noone can hypnotise you to make the problem go away. (Unless maybe you are one of the 10% of highly suggestible people)

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